The Firefighter Brotherhood
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Unknown Speaker 0:28
Good morning, Las Vegas. This is Veterans Affairs plus on 91.5 Jazz and I'm Dave Washington, your host back in the seat for a little bit. And I want to thank retired fire chief Eugene Campbell, colleague and friend who set in for me the last couple of shows and he did a great job. In fact, I listened to it. In fact, Wes was talking about how well he thought Jean did as well. So, Chief Campbell, thank you, brother for holding down for me. I'd like to also congratulate UNLV President Whitfield, I have not been on the show to just say, Hey, good job, great job. And we're so happy that you have gotten a new four year contract we Ask and pray for your continued success. My grandson, Karen, Karen Armageddon, His birthday is this month so Happy Birthday grandson. We know that he's an aspiring basketball player doing a good job. He's five 9am five, eight. So he's, he's soon to be 12. And he's going right past his grandpa condolences, Xena, Don lost her mom. So we want to express condolences to that family. And Xena is one of our radio personalities on one of the I guess you'd call corporate radio stations. But we surely want to express again, condolences on the loss of her mom. And her services, in fact, are today. So Jean did a great job for folks over at EOB during her lifespan and, and work on this planet. As I continue to, you know, get these medical issues addressed. I certainly want to thank all those who have prayed. And for my healing. I've gotten all sorts of text calls, emails, greatly appreciated by me and my family. So once again, thank you all and keep the prayers going on because I ain't out of the woods yet. But I'm keeping it on a positive note. With that, I'm going to move quickly into once again, this is Veterans Affairs plus on 91.5 Jazz and more. And I am excited. And I say this a lot. People probably say hey, you say you're excited a lot. Well, I am. I'm very excited because today I have fire chief Sherman George retired captain Addington Stewart retired these and also Sue is the former president of the IAB pff. These gentlemen are longtime colleagues at the Carl Holmes executive development institute. And just some good friends to to have a lifelong relationship with. So Good morning, gentlemen. Good morning, you guys. Good morning. Good morning. We got chief George and we got Captain adding to Stuart, How're you guys doing today?
Unknown Speaker 3:17
All right, can get no better.
Unknown Speaker 3:19
I heard that. Yeah. Hey, walking, talking to breathe? For sure, for sure. Look, share him. I know you are a military veteran. Would you please tell our listening audience? What branch and how long do you serve?
Unknown Speaker 3:36
Serve the United States Army called 1965 During the 1965 to June of 1967. And I did my basic training, but other than 30 miles from St. Louis, Missouri. And after that, I went to Fort Gordon Georgia, to the military police school there and it's a MOS of 95. B. Bravo.
Unknown Speaker 4:07
Shirt. Do you know cheap that I didn't know that you were a military police gene was a military police as well. So you were right. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't know you guys do have that in common. But Jean Jean Jean was Air Force.
Unknown Speaker 4:20
Well, it was a sign of leadership. Gotta do what's right and keep everybody else in line.
Unknown Speaker 4:28
That's right. That's right. Okay, so So, Stu, I know that I know that you did not go to the military, but I consider you one of our domestic warriors. In terms of being a firefighter. How long did you serve? And when did you enter the fire service there in St. Louis.
Unknown Speaker 4:48
The fire service in St. Louis and 1978 just after graduating from high school in 1977. I stayed there for 35 years retired. 2013 Of course, as you mentioned, I was a captain and I worked in the administration of cheap George and managed his bond issue for him $45 million bond issue. And, and we didn't mess nothing up. Yeah. Well and best managed by this day and hey, it with an i can't i won't be remiss without mentioning Miss Cynthia addiction, who managed the money sat for for the department and for the fire chief and worked with me directly. But but we kept everything in order, because we knew that he was looking for us to mess up.
Unknown Speaker 5:40
Yeah. Well, that's about servers. I mean, each cabin steward really kept me out. It's kept me on the straight and narrow. I will say that I had a vision for the fire department. But I needed good people who, who could make that vision come true. And he was right on top of it, he was number one didn't mess up, we got everything. Didn't have all change orders, and everything was everything, everything in order, and we didn't waste the city's money. And that's what I was interested in and make sure that we manage the money properly. Right? Because that's, you know, if you don't do that you that's a sure sign of failure. You know that one? Absolutely.
Unknown Speaker 6:27
You know, it's very interesting that you guys had that bond issue, we had a tax initiative here in Las Vegas, and one of the things that I was responsible for was going out into the community. And you have to convince people that it's a good investment of their money. And like you say, achieved, one of the key things is properly dispensing that money, not just, you know, foolishly throwing it here, there and everywhere, but have a particular target of items that you want to get accomplished. So absolutely. Great. So chief, how many years you do with the department you?
Unknown Speaker 7:02
Well, I'm a couple months short of four years. What are you little longer than that I wanted to stay, but I just had to try to stay to ensure that things were not putting away that, that we we failed to accomplish our mission?
Unknown Speaker 7:22
Well, one thing I want to roll into now, you know, you guys have had long, great careers with St. Louis Fire Department. And you guys have been instrumental in the call Holmes executive development Development Institute, over a number of years. And you guys have done great work there, along with your our recently deceased colleague and friend, Chief, Spike Jones, what a great brother he was. So tell me a little bit about your experience with the Carl Holmes executive development institute. And then we'll talk a little bit more pacifically about spike and his his contribution to you guys's effort?
Unknown Speaker 8:02
Well, by experience, you know, steel has always been there. Mostly in the background, we had to come forward and after a couple of years, but we are actually busy about trying to help people pass these promotional exams and today to have opportunity to move up. I think most people misunderstand something here. Here's the deal. They they think that taking these tests, was the ultimate answer. But it all depends on what type of test you're taking. We're talking about performance based testing. And that presented a problem for African American around the country. Because I always believed that we could do the job, but we had to, we had to be have a way that we can demonstrate that we could do the job didn't come about early, early enough. So many people were educated and had the knowledge but never had the opportunity. You see, my life was lot philosophy is no opportunity, no success. You can't get you can't get from can't get anywhere if you don't have the opportunity. And for so long African America denied those opportunities. And what Dr. Holmes presented us was it was like an opportunity. And it all was based around knowing your job. And we all had to focus on it. And so spike and I began and the second year EDI 1992 1982, right? Relationships and all the heydays where you had to, you know, paying your own transportation and taking your own time off and making sure you brought your own material reels and made up your own outline which had to get approved without the home first. But we made sure that we got those things accomplished, to try to make sure that people knew what their jobs were and how they had to perform. Right. And, you know, you mentioned, Keith Jones. And, you know, he and I have been ruled golf for many years going across this country, trying to train not to, not to teach but to train. There's a difference in my mind, you know, I think most African American know how to do the job. But sometimes we get waylaid about. We do it this way. They do it that way. And that way, you always get yo, you get confused, and you don't get the right answers. So, but anyway, I, I want to take balls out, it's 14 After so I want to make sure that still gets placed Tuesday, we're gonna
Unknown Speaker 10:57
we're gonna we're gonna get stupid. One thing I ask of you is, you know, there was another gentleman, I think, in fact, I think Sue told me there was another gentleman who started out with you in spite, and then he transitioned and a little bit later.
Unknown Speaker 11:08
Yeah, it was a battalion chief Robert Grady. We, he and I, well, actually, he and I started early in career where we were put on a panel to grade tests. It was two African American champion and two, white Captain, we all agree relationships. And we've said in the same room, and we develop the not only the answer key, but check the repaper to make sure that we did right, contact procedures and rules and regulations, et cetera, et cetera. And we've graded on individuals. And I have one concern, you know, because at the end of the test, to be rented personnel say game was tested, this guy says he answered the questions, right? I don't want you guys to regrade it. And, you know, I thought about it in two grade, I thought about it. You know, what if we make a mistake and say, what would come out differently come off different? Well, we didn't know who it was or anything. But we graded the test, and it came out exactly the same. So that that was a great lesson and say that, hey, if we do this thing, right, everybody will have the same opportunity. That's all we were looking for. We didn't necessarily give us anything. But make sure that we had the opportunity. And we can see that in the assessment center process. Right? We're, if you knew, if you knew your job, and you've done it fairly, did you had a chance. But then multiple choice test. I don't think we had a chance. There was we were just testing for knowledge in order to have a decent test with knowledge, skills and abilities. You know, it's just like getting in a car and drive and get your driver's license. You got to do that ABC test. And then but then you got to get in the car and do that tough parallel parking. Right. And so that's a demonstration of skill that you have not taught you tell me you have, would you show me that? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 13:13
absolutely.
Unknown Speaker 13:14
So, but anyway, I hope I answer that question. No,
Unknown Speaker 13:18
that's fine. As smooth as far as when you rolled into the operation with these guys, in terms of being instructors there. Give some thoughts about your your involvement in that process?
Unknown Speaker 13:33
Well, yeah, first I was a student at Adi attended my first year in 1995, graduated in 99. And was an instructor and in 2000, because a sermon had became the fire chief in St. Louis Fire Commissioner in chief in St. Louis. And first, though, even before that, I was a student up there, Dr. Holmes, you as you know, created this whole assessment center process for us to even teach. So definitely, we gotta give kudos to Dr. Carl Holmes because he was a test consultant with a consultant that had came to St. Louis, and had been a part of that process. I think it was 86 exam or, or somewhere in there, maybe even before that 80 exam, I'm sorry, 280 exam. But getting back to the point of VDI, of course found out after the first year that I knew I was gonna go all five years back to back to back. And because of the instruction and all of the information we received, and so I did do those five years. Like you said, like I said, I became the instructor. When chief George was made chief. I had always been assistant and have been around them with recruitment and the likes and helping people with getting testing done within the St. Louis Fire Department's in reference to entry level test. But it was the first time venturing off in the assessment center process. Basically, me whale, I believe, between a man spike in the last, I would say last five to 10 years, it had been him and I exclusively going around the country. And I mean, not only was helping and supporting and teaching, just like Western say it, you know, you got to driver's license, just think of an airplane, you get on an airplane, and fidelity as you he passed the multiple choice test. But then when he got in the simulator, he crashed every time. You wouldn't want to be on that plane. So you know, that's the difference in, in assessing someone's abilities and versus people's job knowledge. Because we ran into that in the fire service. And you know, as well, we had some guys that was smart as a whip, but you get them out there to perform, even even actually perform they couldn't do
Unknown Speaker 16:03
the job. Right? Yes. Very true. In fact, that was actually the challenge. Yes. To that point, I had an individual he graduated, I'll never call his name openly. But he graduated from media and he was pressing me because he's doing very well, on the battalion chief test. But when it came down to performance, you know, we used to monitor the radios on certain level of fire within our city. And I watch how this guy would always what they call, as you guys are familiar with pass command, never took never would take command. Also, when I took over as fire chief, me in the PIO ran Pio training, anyone who could possibly be having to address the press, we taught them how to do that. Because I was a PR o early in my career public education slash public information officer. So this guy wouldn't even deal with the press man. And I'm like, I can't take you to the next level. Oh, you're never gonna pull up. I never said that. I won't ever but you got to show something, man. And one thing that I was always standing firm on, you can't come to me just because you're black and expect me to promote you, and you bring nothing to the table. It don't it don't. That's not the way things should go in any organization, for that matter, let alone a very dangerous occupation that we shared in the fire service. So please, I want to roll now into your thoughts about our colleague, Mike Jones, and his contribution overall, not only to EDI, to the St. Louis Fire Department, but as you guys both have kind of touched upon the things that he did throughout the country. And as I express it at his repairs, I told his wife that, yes, there was a lot done as far as EDS is concerned. But the touch the reach was outside of the United States of America, because we had people coming in from from England, we had people coming in from the Caribbean, of course. So, so spike touch people, as you guys have from around this world. So comments in regards to that, please.
Unknown Speaker 18:09
Sometimes we talk about what people do. And I, you know, I will say this Keystone was my acting deputy chief for six years, six years, I've been more than eight years that I was chief, and that, you know, he wasn't compensated for it. It's just a sacrifice he made, right, we made a sacrifice. And for the most part, because there was some others who said they didn't want to do it being achieved, I could order them to do it, but you don't want to order people to do things that they don't want to do. Right. Unless there's an emergency thing. You know, that doesn't help you at all. So I, you know, definitely, that's shows part of his leadership right then. And some people have a different framework where they think about leadership. You know, I look at it as sacrificing responsibility, sacrificing responsibility, and leadership. I know reward. I've used to be king, the more I just sit on my throne.
Unknown Speaker 19:19
That's the fact. Once again, Las Vegas. This is Veterans Affairs, plus on any 1.5 Jazz and more, I have retired fire chief Sherman, George St. Louis fire, and also retired captain Addington steward, the St. Louis Fire Department, and I appreciate these guys. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 19:35
right. Quick. While it's doing it will say the sacrifice what what happened with me scribal going across the country was striking, still going across the country. I mean, these were, this was our we didn't make any money off that. Right. So we were doing this, because people want to talk we could happen. We did that. So So Will I believe I know he did. But it took dollar days. All right, we didn't get paid days. They did pay for our hotel room and Air flight. I mean, we wouldn't pay any salary like that. So that's part of the sacrifice. I'm talking about where you looked at this leader skill and say some?
Unknown Speaker 20:23
Yeah, just just, and I really ain't no short version of this, but we got to give the short version. And like I say, I've been running with Spike ever since 1990, or 2000s, up until his past, and we were at EDI and 2023. But it's really I called him and people in the fire service. Know what this is? He was the lead instructor of our class during the entire time I was there. And, you know, I learned a whole lot from him. He was real, particular analytic, he was arrogant. To not a fault. That's arrogant. He was so arrogant, and positively arrogant about his knowledge of the assessment center process. And everything we learned and from, you know, why are they doing these things? Why the consultants asking questions the way they do, you should even look like how you should wake up in the morning and start your assessment center process day. It's a difference between teaching somebody the job and preparing somebody from the test. I learned that sitting with him in chief. And, and that's what we would tell people, okay, you know, all of this stuff, but are you prepared to take this test? Right, you know, or are you prepared to take the test, but then don't know the stuff that you're supposed to know in relationship to the rules, rigs, procedures, and operating guidelines. And best that was out of the things he was good at until this day. Up until he hits passing, I should say, Spike will still go into assessment. He was then Illinois in January of this year, you know, on an assessment center process, and I was in Baltimore recently, we were in Bridgeport recently, where people were successful in the exam. And we kind of change things up and offer people the opportunity to make a donation to us if they wanted to. Some people did, and some didn't know how small or large their organizations were. But like the chief said, they took care of our room and board. So I made donations at the right and, and we never we never set out until them yeah, we charging you this to come to your city. Y'all need us, y'all call us. We get the appropriate information and contacts with them. But let's fight was real, real real. Down to the bone on this. And he told me he was going to wrap this thing up to the wheels came off. And he definitely, absolutely no. One quick perspective from when it was about eight of us are firefighters in France, went to meet with him when I met with him like that Friday before that next Monday when a bunch of us went back. And one thing spike told us because he was he was basically saying goodbye to we didn't know it at the time. But he was and the one thing he told us was money and everything. And he said all this money I got if I came by my house. That was one thing he said to us. And then the other thing he said to us. Yeah, I know make it do this. And he said it three different times, but ours, and about 15 minutes we were there, that he ain't gonna make it and we tried to reassure him out Yeah, but all you got to do is do this. He did do this and do that. And you will be okay. But truthfully, we could see the life leaving him and we could see that he was he was in the Battle of his life and he was losing. And but but this brother, man, I'm telling you, we went to war. He supported everything I did. I was the chapter president in St. Louis. He supported me. He was right there. Whitney giving me advice. Regional Director. Same thing. International President same thing. And I'm a man him been traveling like I say for the last 24 years and doing EDI. It's been a blessing. We were starting a succession plan and we're gonna implement it. this coming school year, got some new ideas got some fresh young folks we tried to pull in, but a spike can't be replaced. I don't even at that cannot be replaced 100%
Unknown Speaker 24:48
But never be. Once again. This is Veterans Affairs plus on 91.5 Jazz and more. I have retired Chief of St. Louis Fire Department sure majority and retired captain And Addington Stewart we call him Stu of the St. Louis Fire Department as well. Appreciate you guys, as we get paired in our closing minutes. Again, what can we do? And I'm asking him question of you guys to ensure that his legacy continues on I know he has, he wrote a book, which I bought several copies and will continue to buy copies. And once we learn where we can get those copies, we need to make sure that we get that information out to particularly those who are in the fire service as well as other occupation and organizations just shows again, and you guys have touched on several times his leadership ability. So with that, what what can we continue to do, because spike was such a great leader.
Unknown Speaker 25:42
I think he went to seventh grade by writing a book and he could put everything in the book, but it shows a history. And I think that's what we need to go back to, because sometimes we're losing so many young people, but they, they don't quite understand. They have to go through, go through what we went through. And we try to tell them but unless you experience is two different things, but there are people who truly understand the struggle. And we need to look at people in their history. What they've done is like I looked at Steve go home the first time I ever seen him black chief, imagine that never seen a black chief EDL. I'm amazed because I was not a fire chief. I was at the tangy. And I was amazed though chief officer, we saw it there was an image, something that I wanted to be let
Unknown Speaker 26:35
me let me say this cheap. You know, I didn't have a clue about a vitae. I knew about a resume. But I took your vitae. It was you. What's the cetera sister out of Berkeley? Yours. I think it was something I got from Bob. But what I did was I take a collection of things that I learned from each one of you guys that package my own stuff, man. So us connecting with one another is so important, man. And like I say, I learned a lot from all of you guys. And, and one of the key things about EDA, as you've mentioned, you both admit you get to interact with with officers from various ranks from various departments. And there is no cookie cutter approach. Some people think that you can just cut out this cookie cutter, use this cookie cutter and become fired. You know, it's all different. Every department has something a little bit different from another guy. He
Unknown Speaker 27:25
is always somebody who's your boss. You know, you have expectation when he becomes a key, but there are people who help you know, we have expectations. Hopefully, they have the same expectation you have but everyone they don't it creates a clash. And then what do you do? But you got to go within and pull, pull that pull at your heartstrings and say, What do I do? Right? And then make the right decision based on what it means not just to you but what it means to black firefighter, and black citizens and all citizens. We're minute spell your for right. What do you do think fairly? You could affect everybody? That's right.
Unknown Speaker 28:08
That's right. Do what you got for us as we close?
Unknown Speaker 28:13
Well, I was saying chapter is many of those stories as we can because that's what he was doing in his book. And that would add to his legacy, I would say I was watching through and I know a few people who had posted on his on the mortuary site leaving their thoughts of spite chief Willie Owens out of Jackson, Mississippi. He mentioned spike and he said they wouldn't have never made the stress and the promotions and gotten the promotions they had gotten if you're waiting for him in Sherman, if you talk about cheap Ronny few down out of nothing good when did Fulton County at the time was it Birmingham? I don't know but anyway,
Unknown Speaker 29:02
a few Yeah, he was down in Georgia but not it wasn't Birmingham, I forget where it was. But anyway, we're getting ready to wrap up
Unknown Speaker 29:09
the county but in that just him too. You know, those types of stories if we could figure out a way to put out a message to capture them and let people tell them going back as far as people can can remember and put them in some type of document. I think that will leave a legacy for spike that
Unknown Speaker 29:30
family with a great well appreciated gentleman. Thank you guys for your comments about your service within the fire service and your your your contact your your camaraderie with our brother, Chief Spike Jones. Thank you guys and this is Veterans Affairs plus on any 1.5 chairs and more we'll talk with you
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
