Veteran's Affairs Plus W/ David L. Washington

Wesley Knight 0:00
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Music 0:42
what's going on good

Dave Washington 0:48
day Las Vegas. This is Veterans Affairs, plus on 91.5 jazz and more. I'm Dave Washington, your host, and you can tell that my voice is a little whack. Today. I'm still under this chemo. I got one more treatment to do, so I'll keep you guys posted. Wanna just mention some birthdays. Of course, ancestor Muhammad Ali's birthday was this month. A former colleague of Bernard dono and I Andre rose birthday this month. And of course, Dr Martin Luther King's birthday was this month, and he had a great parade downtown, in fact, one of the largest parades in our country. And just want to congratulate the former Assemblyman and president of the Martin Luther King committee, Wendell P Williams for his work. He and his team have done an outstanding job. That was a 43rd parade. And well done. And then certainly, just want to express condolences to the family of Earlene. We call her BB Good, good lady. She passed away most recently so Ralph, we feel the pain, and we express condolences to you and your family. And of course, we have the EDI golf event on April 10, in honor of a couple of our ancestors and former colleagues, Chief Herschel Clady out of Los Angeles County, and also chief Spike Jones out of St Louis. So just wanted to acknowledge those folks, because they were important to the fire service and the Carl homes executive development institute. I always try to talk about people who I like to get on the show in the future. And I'm going to try to get LA's fire chief, and also there's county supervisor. And the reason why I want them to come on the show is last year around February. I forget the exact date, but they they honored uh, Herschel glady, again, an ancestor and a 30 plus year firefighter all the way to the rank of Assistant Chief with LA County Fire. So I want and the supervisor, because they done something that's very unusual. Very seldom do you get any organization to actually name a fire station after a person that's pretty, doggone rare. Now the California fires, of course, we know there's a lot of containment. In fact, a couple more have jumped off, but something that is very important that I want people out there in our listening audience to understand, and that's why I invited our guests, bernadanahu, who was a colleague of mine, and in fact, you guys have heard me several times talk about the incident when we had a rollover of one of our units and one of our officers became a paraplegic, and printed came by my office a minimum of five times a chief, we need to talk typical firefighter mentality. I told him, No, I'm good. And then, as I've told you guys in the past, I was actually debriefed before a class of 4050 students at Dillard University, where I broke down and cried like a baby and have not cried since, because I just was in that mental stage of I'm tough enough that I don't need no debriefing or no talking to I can handle This boy. Was I wrong. And in that vein, I have a colleague on the other side of town, I should say, the larger fire department in the state of Nevada, Clark County Fire, and that's Lamar Lucas. I have him on, and I just want him to talk about what stress he underwent and why he moved from our city. So with that, I like to Brenda, would you come on first and introduce yourself and tell them what capacity you worked in with Las Vegas Fire and Rescue, after which we will have you to come on Lamar and just kind of explain your work with Clark County Fire. Brenda, please.

Brenda 4:35
Yes. I was hired as crisis intervention and stress management administrator. In 1999 I was a certified instructor for ici self, so I was able to teach the classes and help build up the fire department team. And I think the. Main thing was just, you've got to get to know and earn the trust of the firefighters. And I worked very hard at being able to do that. And I started the I was president of the Southern Nevada CISM network, and on the board of directors of bridge counseling, I found that surrounding my chef with friends and people to know that were therapists was very beneficial, and getting to know different therapists who were willing and wanting to work with emergency workers,

Dave Washington 5:36
right, right? Excellent, excellent.

Overlapping Voices 5:38
Lamar, yes, sir, yeah, Dave, can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. Explain a little bit about your background. Okay, yeah, give

Lamar Lucas 5:47
me no. And the guy, I appreciate this opportunity to come on and speak a little bit about what the fire department has meant to me. You know, I was born and raised in Las Vegas, went to Rancho High School in my junior senior year in Clovis, New Mexico, played professional basketball, got on the fire department in 1990 until 2020 and on the heavy I was on our team aircraft, you know, rescue firefighters cadre for the rookie school. And, currently, I help prepare firefighters to get on the fire department. And as the things that's been shared with you know, just being a firefighter, you just not a firefighter, you know, a lot of other things as well, right? Okay,

Dave Washington 6:33
so, Brenda, why did you choose to work in the field, and how many years you actually work in the field.

Brenda 6:40
Oh, I was, it was 28 years David. I when I worked at Mercy Ambulance. I first started as human resources director, and it was, it was when it was small, right? But what I realized is, as the units would have a trauma call that come back to the station to get new equipment, and they would come in, shut the door and say, You can't believe this call I had. So that is what started, and I got interested in the international critical answer that stress management Foundation, and they have the classes, it's all geared for emergency work workers. And I just got interested and went to the classes, and have enjoyed being able to do it. I loved it

Dave Washington 7:41
and you did. How many years actually in the Pacific, 28

Brenda 7:46
between mercy and Las Vegas fire.

Dave Washington 7:49
Okay? 28 years. So from from your perspective, how important it is for an agency to have professionals like you on your team,

Brenda 8:02
because our employees are truly our most important asset. You could have the best stations, best equipment, but you have to have healthy employees, and I was hired for them, so the first thing was just like I say, getting him to trust me. I had classes where I went over my job description, which in stated I did not have to answer a chief question, and taught them the fact that I was only there to help mitigate and accelerate the recovery process. And they do that by talking and listening to each other normalizing it. The Rookie may be sitting there thinking, no one else feels this way, but when the others get to talk, then they realize, well, everyone feels that way, right? And then I always had the additional services, information on different therapists, if needed, the union rep, well, the trustees told me that the employees Assistance Program was one of the least used programs for many years, and within two years after I started, it was a very much used benefit for the firefighters.

Dave Washington 9:37
You know, Brenda, as you was explaining that one thing I wrote on my little sheet here in double underline, trust. Trust, I believe, is so important, because a lot of people, particularly when you get into the mindset, and like I said, I'm a perfect example. I'm strong. I got this. I don't need nobody to talk to. Are you kidding me? I came into this business with the mindset. That's why. There and save lives, and we're tough and we're this and we're that, but what I forgot in my own mentality was you're a human being, and human beings are certainly have frailties, man, you don't know when it may hit. So that that key phrase from you by folks to trust you, I think, was a key to your success in that particular program. So yes, absolutely you greatly appreciate, and I should say once again, this is Veterans Affairs, plus on 91.5 jazz and more. We have Brenda Donoho from you, formerly with Las Vegas Fire and Rescue, and we have Lamar Lucas, formerly with the Clark County Fire Department. Lamar Yes, on you. Now, did you speak to someone during your difficult times as a result of some of the incidents that you ran on? Well, we had

Lamar Lucas 10:48
some difficult times doing because being on heavy rescue, we see so many things, you know, and know how gory I can get on this, but we've seen some things that you can't unsee, right? When you don't get that out your mind, in your heart, off your chest, you end up taking it with you. So during those moments and times, it's just like she was saying, you were saying, the EAP was available for us, but we utilize it the way we should, right? And that's due to something you mentioned earlier about being a firefighter. We're tough. We can handle it. Don't worry about it. I got it, and we can't read that where we'll leave the station and and leaving jokes. And, man, did you see and, and it's, it's not funny, but we make it funny, so that way, we brought was really going on, you know, and didn't allow stuff to release

Dave Washington 11:44
that, right? And to your point, one thing, in my short four and a half years in the field, if it was a child, there was no laughing. It would be very quiet around the fire station. But if it's an adult, there's a different kind of mentality, if you will, of releasing, I guess, the stress. But if it was a child, oh, there ain't gonna be no joking about No Child. There

Lamar Lucas 12:04
was no joking about a child, because, you know, you look at that as this kid didn't have an opportunity to to live or do anything in life. I can, I can close my eyes right now, in 91 we had a fire with at a trailer facility, trailer park, and two kids burnt up, and you can see their head, hands on head, like they were asleep. So I can see that to this day, and you know, and with that being said is a lot of ghosts that I see throughout Las Vegas, and that was one of the main reasons me departing because, you know, I can just basically drive down the street. Oh, I know that kid hung himself. Oh, I remember that person shot himself in the face. But here I see none of that, right? None of those images. I mean, just talking about it. Now, you know, brings it up. But, you know, doing a everyday walk, I don't I don't see that like I did when I was in Vegas right

Dave Washington 13:03
now. Now, Brenda to back to you to that point I see I had never heard of anything. See, God puts us in certain places for certain things. When I was down, as I was going through my treatment, down in MB Anderson and staying with sister and brother in law, Ava and Aubrey Lamar knew that he found out I was in town, so him and his wife, they came and visited me and Marsha, and he said he told me why he had had to get out of Vegas. I'm like, Are you kidding me? So Brenda, have you heard of those types of stories before that? Somebody just have to totally remove themselves from a town or city. I

Brenda 13:41
don't know if they have purposely moved, but what Lamar is talking about as you drive down the street, I remember that call. I remember we turned on that street went down. I have heard that many, many times. I'm not sure that I've known that that is specifically why they left when they retired. They didn't share that, if it was, but the story itself that Lamar is talking about, of the memories as you drive all over Vegas. Yes, that is very familiar story. So

Dave Washington 14:26
Lamar back, back to you. So you, did you, or did you not use the program to speak with some about someone, to try to release some of what was going on in your head? Yeah, there was

Lamar Lucas 14:38
times when we did use the program as a group. We was on the car and car crash behind the truck. Hey, so we crashed behind the truck and all five passengers burned, and that was Father's Day,

Dave Washington 14:58
right? Well. Yeah, once again, this is distance affairs, plus on 91.5 jazz and more, and be due to the California Fire. See, I had already talked to both Brenda Lamar about getting them on the show sometime in the future, but the future is now, because I want people to understand that these first responders, police, fire, et cetera, are going to see some things in the coming days, and have seen already over there in those fires in California. So I want people to understand that we've got to do what we can to help them to get some relief, some mental relief. And it's going to be tough times for those folks, man and and I can feel in your voice, Lamar, that it's there, and again, with your expertise, but I think it's just important for us to share and how important it is for people to to seek that stop. We don't need to be so tough, you know, with the shell, man, because the shell is fake, and I'm telling you, it's going to come back to you at some point in life. Brenda, oh,

Brenda 15:59
wait, we'll come back to bite you. I swear, Chief, I think it starts the very little with be a big boy, please don't cry, and then you get into that. This to emergency services. As a firefighter, it's you don't want to appear vulnerable, right? You don't want the perception that, oh, he doesn't belong on this job. All the reasons that they feel that they should not talk about it is really the reasons they should right. Because if they did, they were realized they're not the only one that feels that way. They definitely can do their job, and just the fact that they have feelings doesn't affect that. It doesn't go away. David, it just keeps accumulating. It's like picking up baggage all day long and but you never put any of it down. It changes who you are. Wow,

Dave Washington 17:11
you know, Brenda, I had Sheriff McMahon, the new sheriff here in Clark County, and I wanted him on the show, because he has eight clinical people and a a PhD and a clinical doctor on his staff now to take care of his people. Of his 4000 plus police officers out there in the field, he said six, between four and 600 have already made visits, and we know police and fire have a reputation, a known reputation of committing suicide and taking themselves out. So I told the man one thing I hope for, for first responders, particularly police and fire, that they will have these kinds of folks around. And I told, I told the sheriff. I told I said, Kevin, I hope that other agencies throughout this country follow your lead, man. And I know sometimes, and one thing I knew, I said, boy, when I leave, they probably gonna get rid of Brenda. But, you know, I just couldn't stay there forever, you know, because the stress of the job gets to everyone, and it was just time for me to move along. But I know how important having people like you on staff could be. So to you, Lamar, what's your thought in terms of having a professional person somewhere that can be accessed by staff within the department? Yeah,

Lamar Lucas 18:36
that's very important. Because, you know, you the training, most of the train would have to come to the battalion chief, when a firefighter and a station get out and do a critical incident, he should be able to contact that Captain, put that unit out of service, and it can be the smallest call, but take that unit out of service and get someone over there from EAP, or young lady. We call her the hug lady. And have you know about the incident, because what ends up happening, I'll just be honest with you guys, you end up taking that stuff with you and my wife. We got married, and we had a great wedding, but inside, there was still some issues with me, meaning I get quiet down. I would go to my old school being sarcastic, what you said, Oh, just playing, you know. And you know what you talking about. So I had to get some real counseling, and I end up in that for myself, right? And it revealed a lot of things within me, which I try to work on and then do little different here at home. So you think it's gone, until you really get down with it and get some help and be honest with the person that you with, because, see, we don't want. Be vulnerable. So I had to really, truly be vulnerable in order to have my relationship and to be where I'm at, right? So unfortunately, it took that, but I'm blessed that it took that. So I was telling these guys, prior to retiring, prior to getting out in life, get seek some counseling. See some deep, deep counseling. Don't be afraid to do it, because it will help you in the future, right? You don't know it now, and you don't think you have it, but you know that PTSD is real. It's real. Trust me, yes,

Dave Washington 20:35
in there. Done that. So I hear you. So any comforting words that are shared by one of those professionals that trigger your mind for a purpose of mental relief for you? Lamar,

Lamar Lucas 20:49
yeah, one of the things you know that that shared with the shared me, you know, I said I did this, I did this. And you know, when Sarah, I did this, you get frustrated because you do so much as a firefighter. And then, you know this, I help with that. And then the therapist looked at me and said, Okay, well, who told you? I said, Wait a minute. You're right. And within that meaning that there's a lot of stuff you do outside of the fire department, and you want to have, you know, love for everyone, and you go out and do so if you're going to do something, do it from your heart. Just do it from like, don't expect, no expectations. Because what happens is, you the one that ends up getting disappointed. Disappointment to take with you wherever you go. I can't believe they didn't call me and believe they did this. I helped those guys with that. Then can you help me? You know what? Don't be disappointed. And that's one of the things, because we do, we do so much every day, not just 24 hours on at the station, but the 24 hours you get off at home, you're doing a lot, then you go back and do a lot, then you go home and you do a lot. There's some peace in there that has to say, okay, you know what? Let me just relax and be calm. Because, you know, right now, my wife and I, we're talking, we'll sit and when I get she understand that's just a moment that I need to have for myself, right, right? And just do it like that. Because that thing I would say, Please, please, please, don't let your ego get in the way of you going seeking help,

Dave Washington 22:20
right? Wow, that's great. So Brenda, why do you believe folks generally don't want to discuss matters that cause them pain?

Brenda 22:31
In particular, I think it gets back to like I said, the it's almost like the race that way, and they don't want to be vulnerable, and they fight against against it. But Lamar is exactly right on. You have to talk to someone. It just keeps adding and adding. It doesn't go away. And our raid says, like in you talking to the sheriff, whether it's police or fire, emergency worker. Stats on divorce, suicide, self medication, they're all very high, and Metro has been very progressive, more so than, than this, than a lot of fire departments, right, right? But then there's a lot of police that have still have done nothing. Mm,

Dave Washington 23:32
hmm, that's right. And as a consequence, they're losing veterans who've gone through this stress, and they're doing nothing to help them. And Lamar, I think your point is so vital, man, that before you leave, before there should be some kind of debriefing that occurs with all fire service and first responders as they exit the door into retirement. Because sometimes people retire, they've been under the pressure of that, and it comes back on them, and next thing you know, they don't blow their brains out. And you go, what happened? Yeah, what happened? So look, we got about four and a half minutes left, so Brenda, I'm going, I'm gonna go to you, Lamar, and then Brenda, I'll come back to you as a professional who's worked in okay for for so many years, share some general thoughts in regards to how you and I know everybody's different. We don't all address things in the same way. And as my challenge go, as I go through my challenge of recovery, with my with my cancer therapy, you know, I'm having a tough time eating, my appetite, my taste buds are shot, and it is such a mental battle, man that is as much. And both of y'all know my wife and she can be very, very pushy and hard, but I can tell you that sometimes I say, Marcia, if you only knew and my kids, Benny, you know my kids too, but you do too as well. Lamar, but they are pushing like pushing me to the hill. And sometimes I want to do you guys truly, truly, I. To stay in this pain. I don't want to hurt you guys, and I know what I got to do, but it's so hard. But anyway, share some thoughts, please, and then we'll come back to you. Brenda, for closing. Go ahead. Lamar,

Lamar Lucas 25:10
Well, Dave, thank you for having me on. Brenda, it's nice talking with you as well. I just want to say too, debriefing would be great. I mean, even after your last day, I know EAP has some things that are available. You take advantage of that. It is still available for you today, meditation, good, exercise is good. And, you know, those are two of the things I do today. I get out and walk and I grab my bike, I go to the gym and, you know, just try to stay busy with those type of things. I mean, I'm not preparing myself like I did, preparing myself for professional basketball, anything, but it definitely gives me to get out of the house and do something, and also substitute teaching right now. So it gives me a chance to get out and do some different stuff. So you have to figure out what it is that you want to do and what your purpose is, you know, in daily life, and once you find that peace, you can move on with with your past, because your past can be your present, if you allow, but you got to take yourself out of that and move forward. And Dave, I just want to say this to my birthday is January, 26 you pass my birthday?

Dave Washington 26:16
Well, we'll say, I'm glad you mentioned that. Yeah, I know, yeah. So thank you so much. We'll see it. Brenda, thank you. I

Brenda 26:23
think the one thing I want to leave them with is to truly be honest with yourself. Listen to that inner voice. They know what they do day after day after day, and when that inner voice starts trying to talk to you, listen to it and get the help that you need. And there is nothing wrong with asking for help and talking to someone. And Lamar is incorrect. Whatever it is, whether it's exercise or volunteering, do something for you and keep your high school and college friends, we have a tendency to just have firefighters as our friend. You need to keep the friends that you had when it was just a nine to five job, or you were still in college, right? I want to say, keep the normality. That doesn't sound correct, but no, keep the other friends, besides just your firefighters. It helps keep you grounded. Wow,

Dave Washington 27:39
that is well said as well, because I think that it's important, because, like you say, if you just surround yourself with people in your profession, you might get to the point where you all sitting around, you know, and digging deeper holes for yourself. And again, I think it's important to have some discussion. But by the same token, you got to have other folks outside of your profession that you are friendly with and have been friends with over the years. I think that's a valid point. You guys have no idea how much I appreciate you coming on board, because this program after it airs, and I will send you information on when it airs, then it goes Wes, and the team here, Dr Ashton, really, they got this thing down where probably 30 minutes to an hour, it goes to podcast that you can send, and people can actually go online, where you get your podcast accelerating, and get yourself online and listen to the show anywhere in America. Once again, Las Vegas. This is Veterans Affairs, plus on 91.5 jazz and more, which just gave me the signal. Brenda Lamar, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Lamar Lucas 28:48
Thank you to you. Oh.

Music 29:21
All the smoke in the air till they hate when they stare all the pain that we bear, all you bear.